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The purpose of power is power

3 o'clock, June 18, 2005

And I’m abusing mine, to post something here where it’ll stand out rather than contributing to the conversation — where I’d feel compelled to closely read everything before I post, respond substantively to each substantive point, and type like hell in hopes of getting a word in edgewise before Ben posts another pithy two-page screed that forces me to rethink everything. Instead I will merely remark that:

  • I fixed the bitch thing. (My anti-spam software is slow and stupid and, like the rest of my blog, at least two years behind the state of the art. I hate configuring software too much to do anything about that.)
  • Nothing the Cabal has posted makes me feel particularly defensive.
  • I think the criticism that we (for some fairly wide-ranging definition of us, from which feel free to exclude yourself if you’d otherwise be offended) ought to be writing more far-out stuff and fewer me-too stories is well taken.
  • I think Dave Schwartz’s suggestion that the Cabal should apply that same critical eye to their own criticism also bears thinking about. (Meghan, as usual, says it well: “Why don’t you get angry about it? You are making me angry with your lack of anger.”) These are questions a lot of us ask ourselves, or have asked ourselves, somewhere in these early years of our careers, and they’re perfectly valid questions. What they aren’t, is a New Voice in Genre Criticism.
  • I think most of the rest of the sentiments expressed over there — the Nebula process is screwed; too much SF is inward-directed and self-referential; SF-ness is defined by fan reaction, not subject matter — sound like places I’ve already been and things I’ve already done. (As Alan said: the unquestioned dichotomy btwn. “mainstream” and “genre” . . . and Atwood . . . aaaahhhhh, head hurts.)
  • I waver between charitably assuming that the Cabalists are ignorant of the ongoing conversations around these questions (as ignorant as I was, say, five years ago) and charitably assuming that they are aware of those conversations and sooner or later will find something new to add to them.
  • The best way to get attention as an SF critic, cf. Matt Cheney, is to say interesting things.
  • I think the names are silly. The Cabalists themselves are on record as saying the names are silly.
  • I think there’s something extra-silly — if, like Susan, I was in the middle of an annoying disseration chapter, I might say tedious, instead —, in a way that I’m not sure is intentional, about making earnest, concerned, serious posts about the State of the Field and the Meaning of the Genre under frivolous assumed names.
  • So I don’t feel inclined to take the Cabal very seriously, and I don’t have any qualms about responding in a frivolous way.
  • Viz., the betting pool.
  • Viz., offering a prize for guessing a Clarion class rather than, say, prizes for guessing the identities of individual members.
  • Viz., not holding any of this against them if, as, and when their true identities become known.
  • If I didn’t think the SF world needed to have more fun, I wouldn’t be Infernokrushing.

Oh, and I’ll try and update the front-page betting records tomorrow, or Monday lunchtime at the latest.

Ben, Alan, one of you go post something about the Author and the Work, or about public and private audiences, or whatever, and let’s go talk about that there. (Hell, repost your comments from the DC thread.)

Remember, flippant is the new ironic.

Comments

Remember, flippant is the new ironic.

I love you for this.

—— JeremyT, 4:08 PM, Saturday, June 18, 2005

I can't believe you're all wasting time on this (the betting ring, speculating about them Dark Cabalists) when some hideous power has put a curse on the Australian cricket team! Have none of you any compassion? Any heart? Any sense of justice? Why aren't you all busily figuring out how to save Australia? How to lift this dead curse!?

Unless, it's the work of the Dark Cabal! Oh my God! They MUST be stopped!!

—— Justine Larbalestier, 4:59 PM, Saturday, June 18, 2005

It's just like a dark conspiracy to pretend to be all about one thing, while really being all about something else entirely. I know this. I've read my Robert Anton Wilson.

Justine, I'll make you a deal: I'll care about the Australian cricket team if you will explain the sport to me. Heck, I'll even root for them as if they were my home team. I'm pretty sure we don't have one here in the U.S..

—— JeremyT, 5:05 PM, Saturday, June 18, 2005

JeremyT: But I have explained the sport to all who care to know about it. You can find my extremely easy-to-follow guide here.

I'm also up for explaining it in the bar of any sf convention I happen to be attending for the low low price of keeping my throat from becoming parched. Very tricky explaining cricket if the whistle isn't wet.

—— Justine Larbalestier, 5:21 PM, Saturday, June 18, 2005

I’m not sure is intentional, about making earnest, concerned, serious posts about the State of the Field and the Meaning of the Genre under frivolous assumed names.

That was week one. Week two seems to involve staggering out of a bar, throwing punches at the air, and shouting "You think yer bettr'n me? Well yah AIN'T!" at people who left an hour ago. To wit:

It sure does seem to be easy for snobs and wannabees to toss off quips about how bestsellers like _DaVinci Code_-- or Brittany Spears-- are lacking in all originality. It's certainly a lot easier to denigrate the audience than to ask the questions of exactly how the work achieves its effect. The prose of _DaVinci Code_ ain't gonna win awards for beauty, or for that matter, for clarity, either. OK, fine, get over it. Quit whining and bitching about how it's junk, you losers. Take it apart. Why does it work?

I'd also take their bitter populism ("If only could figure it out, we could actually get a better sell-through on our novels") a bit more seriously if any of them knew how to spell Britney Spears.

—— Nick Mamatas, 1:13 PM, Sunday, June 19, 2005

I’d take the whole thing a bit more seriously if they could make up their minds whether to be bitter populists or bitter elitists.

Well, okay, I wouldn’t. But still.

—— David Moles, 1:38 PM, Sunday, June 19, 2005

What fun! I love cabals, dark or otherwise.

Having just seen the "Batman Begins" movie (see footnote), it seems perfectly reasonable to me that people who want to improve the world (or destroy it...) would don masks and cowls and portentious nicknames.

NM: >I'd also take their bitter populism... a bit more seriously if any of them knew how to spell Britney Spears.

Heck, I take them more seriously if they *don't* know how to spell Britney Spears!

DM: >I’d take the whole thing a bit more seriously if they could make up their minds whether to be bitter populists or bitter elitists.

Heck, since there's a dozen or so posting, why can't they can be some of each?

Voting on names: OK, I'll think it over.

---
footnote: a waste of two hours. It hadn't been high on my list in the first place, but the other friends we were meeting picked the movie. Ironically, we never did catch up with the other friends, but by the time we got to the movie, it was too late for the movie that I'd wanted to see.

—— Geoffrey A. Landis, 7:05 AM, Monday, June 20, 2005

You know, no matter how tepid (or how tedious) I've found the enterprise to date, it's hard not to feel at least some sympathy for the anonymites--it can't ever be a pleasant thing, to be this week's target of Nick's drive-by abuse.

—— Susan, 10:07 AM, Monday, June 20, 2005

It's okay; he's moved on to bashing Daniel Handler now.

—— David Moles, 10:13 AM, Monday, June 20, 2005

Oh, I wrote that Handler thing weeks ago.

—— Nick Mamatas, 10:49 AM, Monday, June 20, 2005

“But every day seems brand new in the exciting, fast-paced, ever-changing world of the net!!”

So I get my copy of Flytrap in the mail, and on the cover it says Columns by: Nick Mamatas · Jed Hartman, and I’m, like: “To hell with that, I want to know what they’re thinking now.

—— David Moles, 11:04 AM, Monday, June 20, 2005

The column remains apropos, given Cabalish whining about college tuition and whiter goes the field and all that, actually.

—— Nick Mamatas, 11:43 AM, Monday, June 20, 2005

Hmm, so imagine you were kind of jovially and perhaps condescendingly semi-trashing a piece of anonymous criticism by someone you took for a newbie fanzine scrawler... and then you heard this rumor that behind the criticism was a more senior writer whose fiction you admire...

For a moment, it might feel like one of those Talmudic legends, where the messiah is disguised as an irascible beggar...

—— Benjamin Rosenbaum, 1:19 PM, Monday, June 20, 2005

Maybe, but I'd want to know why said senior writer was writing like a newbie fanzine scrawler. If it's the Messiah, you figure he's got a reason. A mere writer, maybe not so much. (I'm long past the stage of finding out my idols are human.)

—— David Moles, 1:32 PM, Monday, June 20, 2005

Sure. There's also the option of someone being an excellent fictioneer and an uninspired critic.

But there's also how your perception of the identity behind the scrawl influences how you parse the scrawl. What seems fervid and Very Serious coming from a newbie might be meant wryly, or simply lazily, coming from someone who you know can actually write.

Which doesn't necessarily make it a better idea to write unpolished musings from behind a goofily-named mask...

—— Benjamin Rosenbaum, 2:02 PM, Monday, June 20, 2005

But there's also how your perception of the identity behind the scrawl influences how you parse the scrawl.

Well, yes. If I know they can actually write, that slides the knob from my "unintentionally silly" to Susan's "tedious".

—— David Moles, 2:08 PM, Monday, June 20, 2005

I think the Dark Cabalists are endearingly naive on a number of topics, and we could probably learn a lot from looking at the world from the perspective of their innocent, workshop-lidded eyes.

Birth the world anew, crazy, doomed muthafuckas.

Jeff

—— Jeff VanderMeer, 2:09 PM, Monday, June 20, 2005

Perhaps you'd be surprised, but others may not. There's actually a fairly old riddle in the jobber distro biz:

"Who knows less about publishing than a midlister? A bestseller!"

—— Nick Mamatas, 4:11 PM, Monday, June 20, 2005

It’s Brown & Spears, isn’t it.

—— David Moles, 4:29 PM, Monday, June 20, 2005

To continue my ongoing review of TDC, I rather liked the Borges-cribbed accessibily/familiarity/transgression post, and bonus points to qwui and Safe Light for withstanding with a modicum of aplomb that withering blast of Mamatas NetFury(tm) which has reduced many an online correspondent to bubbling pools of incoherent jelly.

In this case, if you plot the number of ad hominem attacks and instances of willful refusal to understand the interlocutor on a graph and look at the first derivative (the usual method of scoring a net.battle), Nick's actually rises faster, which is the reverse of the usual trend...

—— Benjamin Rosenbaum, 7:08 AM, Tuesday, June 21, 2005

Interesting, Ben. I'd always just assumed that Nick's method of online debate was all about the spectacle (i.e., he's interested in entertaining the audience rather than engaging in dialogue with his sparring partner), but this mathematical analysis suggests something even more devious and old-school.

—— Susan, 8:29 AM, Tuesday, June 21, 2005

n this case, if you plot the number of ad hominem attacks and instances of willful refusal to understand the interlocutor on a graph and look at the first derivative (the usual method of scoring a net.battle), Nick's actually rises faster, which is the reverse of the usual trend...

I doubt that's the case very much, especially once one considers the fact that the pseudonimity and the murmuring about Heavy Stuff To Be Discussed, placed alongside the actual discussions (e.g. "three-star stories would be four-star stories if they were only better" "only wannabes and losers complain about The da Vinci Code") are themselves wilfull refusals to understand the discussion they're intervening in.

TDC began by waving a flag reading "We're willful fools" -- there's no reason to have ever treated them as anything but foolish. That I did at all is a testament to my own patience. The URL sent to me this morning by Jeff V (I haven't been looking at it since my blow-off, when I flounce I really don't fo back), which featured sub-Tangent Online-level capsule reviews of two short stories pretty much tell me where TDC is actually at.

—— Nick Mamatas, 5:32 PM, Tuesday, June 21, 2005

Yeah, exactly. For just a sec there I was pretty psyched that they'd mentioned my story, but then I'm like, but this isn't a substantial review at all, just a namecheck. I mean, why would anybody go and look for my story because "Brickwork" says he/she likes it?

—— SarahP, 6:42 AM, Wednesday, June 22, 2005

I mean, why would anybody go and look for my story because "Brickwork" says he/she likes it?

Well, why would anybody go and look for your story because anybody says they like it? I don't go and look for everything my friends recommend, even my highly talented and astute writer friends. Why not? Because they don't make them sound interesting to me. You have to read this story! It's amazing! is not something that moves me. On the other hand, make the story sound interesting and I don't care whether you're Fred Bloggs or John Clute.

—— David Moles, 4:22 PM, Wednesday, June 22, 2005

I think I tend to be more motivated to go look up something if I've found that person to be a reliable recommender for me personally. Chris Barzak almost always makes picks - even if I don't think his description sounds particularly interesting.

Some other folk continually makes stuff sound pretty good and I pretty reliably hate what they recommend. Their story of the story is much better than the actual story.

—— chance, 6:07 AM, Thursday, June 23, 2005

I like the part where everyone's commenting on the Cabal's blog. I assume they're trying to ensure that it survives at least until their date in the betting pool.

—— Hannah, 5:24 PM, Sunday, June 26, 2005

I expect you'll be deleting the above bit of comment spam, but there was a beautiful found poerty moment in going to your Most Recent Comments list this morning and finding #1 to be "electric viagra on The Purpose of Power is Power"...

—— Benjamin Rosenbaum, 6:58 AM, Friday, March 24, 2006